Sarah Palin Wants Creationism Taught in School |

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Sarah Palin Wants Creationism Taught in School

Republican vice-presidential candidate wants creationism taught in science classes.

In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, the soon-to-be governor of Alaska said of evolution and creation education, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

And using that logic, maybe we should teach the cooking of magic potions in home economics class too. In fact, we should teach any kind of whacked out methodology as an alternative to traditional subjects and with the rationale being ‘fair and balanced” curriculae.

Asked by the Anchorage Daily News whether she believed in evolution, Palin declined to answer, but said that "I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class."

"I'm not going to pretend I know how all this came to be," she said.

The battle between evolution and creationism -- specifically, Christian creationism -- in U.S. classrooms dates back to the 1925 Scopes trial, when a Tennessee court SARAH PALIN6banned the teaching of evolution. Since then, state and federal courts have repeatedly rejected so-called creation science in public schools, calling it religion rather than science.

The latest courtroom defeat came in the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover case, when the superficially religion-neutral theory of intelligent design was classified as religious creationism. The Supreme Court ruled in 1987 that teaching creationism violated the separation of church and state.

Nevertheless, pro-creationism education initiatives driven by Christian conservatives have flourished, and defenders of evolution -- and, more broadly, scientific integrity -- worry that Palin's pick will give momentum to this church-over-state push.

"It's unfortunate McCain would pick someone who shares those particular anti-science views, but it's not a surprise," said Barbara Forrest, a Southeastern Lousiana University philosophy professor and prominent critic of creationist science. "She's a choice that pleases the religious right. And the religious right has been the chief force against teaching evolution."

In February, Florida's Board of Education narrowly defeated a bill calling for evolution to be balanced by "alternatives." The language is widely regarded as a euphemism for creationism engineered by the pro-intelligent design Discovery Institute, whose "wedge strategy" calls for the gradual dilution of classroom evolution and its eventual replacement by "a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

Armed with courtroom-friendly language, Texas is currently considering creationism-friendly revisions to its own curriculum. In June, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal passed the Louisiana Science Education Act, encouraging schools to provide alternative critiques of global warming, human cloning and evolution. Similar initiatives were defeated in South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Missouri and Michigan.

Palin's statements track with the official Alaska Republican Party platform, which support creation science and intelligent design by name, and says that "evidence disputing the theory should also be presented."

According to Fordham Institute science education expert Lawrence Lerner, Palin's nomination is less worrisome in terms of education than the broad relationship of science and government.

"In the direct sense, vice presidents don't have much to do with what goes on in classrooms. But a person who's a creationist doesn't understand science and technology at all," said Lerner. "It doesn't bode well for science, and doesn't bode well for interaction between science and government."

President Bush has been publicly skeptical of evolution, while Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama has professed support. "I think it's a mistake to try to cloud the teachings of science with theories that frankly don't hold up to scientific inquiry," he said in April.

John McCain's campaign did not respond in time for publication.

When asked about Palin potentially being a step removed from the White House, Forrest responded, "We'd have a creationist as President. But that's not new -- we've already got one."

EXACTLY! And that’s another reason why we need a change in Washighton.

AROUND the BLOGOSPHERE:

Palin, Creationism, and Fear - It seems Palin DIDN'T support teaching Creationism in school. As I said in an earlier post, enemies will spring out of the woodwork now that she's on the national stage, and they WILL use every dishonest trick in the book to make her ...

Palin Creationism Abortion Sarah - Palin Creationism Abortion Sarah Articles.

Palin controversies: creationism and gays - I read quite a few bloggers (conservatives not leftists - who of course are frothing at the mouth about this) yesterday bemoaning Palin's supposed support for teaching creationism in school and the fact that she vetoed an anti-gay bill. ...

Sarah Palin, creationist? - I haven't been able to find anything that definitely says that she believes creationism. That should be one of the things the Democrats press her on. If she says she believes it, that would make a good campaign issue. ...


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  1. 164 Comment(s)

  2. By Steve | Reply

    Whats wrong with teaching the truth in schools?

  3. By Bill Whalen | Reply

    I think it’s about time to put the “theory” of evolution to rest and get back to some real science. Our kids have been exposed to enough evolutionary psuedo-science for long enough. Teach them what we know, what we don’t, and what the most common explainations are. Then guide them on discovering the real truth.

    P.S. I am a real scientist and have been for the past 20 years on a daily basis. I use scientific principals every day in my profession.

  4. By Gary Jacobsen | Reply

    The proof of evolution is in the fossil record. What proof do the creationists provide? Nothing.

  5. By Bella | Reply

    84% of the world is religeous. Why wouldn’t we teach in our schools the general existance of religion and the types of religions in the world?

  6. By Dave | Reply

    “Evolution” is an observable, provable function of nature. Bacteria, which reproduces millions of times in a 24hr period is in a constant state of genetic mutation. This is how we create vaccines and a variety of other medical remedies.

    We can observe the fossil record. There is no dispute on evolution… it is not a theory, it is fact. It is not a debate.

    Genetic mutation and evolution science is imperrative in future technologies such a alternative fuels and climate change. China and India are far and away ahead of us in this area, and as long as we keep believing in “magic” we will continue to fall behind… with dire consequences.

  7. By Dave | Reply

    What kind of scientist? Are you saying genetic mutation of bacteria is not an observable function?

    I don’t find you credible.

  8. By G | Reply

    For those of you who need answers: what came first – the chicken or the egg? Answer that and you will know how everything began.

  9. By G | Reply

    Bella, they save that sort of teaching for the colleges and universities

  10. By Michael | Reply

    I think it’s time to put your pretense of being a credible scientist to bed, if you’re going to make ridiculous statements like that.

  11. By Larry Wakefield | Reply

    Evolution within species is in the fossil record. Evolution from one specy to another is not conclusively in the fossil record. In has huge holes and problems.

    While creationism (old earth/not literal six day)and intelligent design cannot be scientific conclusions because the go outside of natural cause, they are rational possible conclusions in light of the scientific evidence.

  12. By Larry Wakefield | Reply

    Old earth creationists and those who believe in intelligent design do not denigh that evolution exists. They do deny that life began by accident and evolved to today’s present state simply by random chance and survival of the fittest.

    Evidence also goes beyond just the biological sciences.

  13. By Renato | Reply

    I would like to ask whether Dr. Whalen believes accepts Astrophysics or not. If Evolution is a “pseudoscience”, Astrophysics should also be as the evidence supporting Evolution is actually stronger than the evidence supporting General Relativity, for example. It seems that the only aspect thar matters to the criationist is the fact that the Bible does not mention how light should behave around galaxies.

  14. By Oligonicella | Reply

    Larry — Yes it is, you’re simply ignorant of it. It’s also been observed. Nylonase.

  15. By Lisa | Reply

    first this posting should show the whole statement sara palin said and not just what people want you to hear so that you will believe them. If someone has a good argument they do not have to be sneaky to get their point believed. Everyone reading this should do more research on what our future vp said and learn about before they go spreading lies about someone I am sure they do not want the same thing to happen to the great obama so maybe people should do research before quoting and writing about something they don’t know about

  16. By VF Smith | Reply

    Ok,anybody here able to explain how the sexes might have evolved, or how organic matter evolved from inorganic?

    It defies credibility to think that “accidentally” randomness resulted in our universe.

    While the theory of evolution seems to fit in many ways, there is still much more to the puzzle. Eliminating the idea of a sentient Creator is not scientific- it is foolishness.

    A major issue is faith, and that cannot be scientifically dealt with.
    And although evolution might satisfy some as an excellent example of Occam’s Razor, I think one has to be intellectually dishonest in leaving out those critical issues I mention above to suggest it really applies.

    Evolution leaves many questions, while creationism (as expressed strictly biblically) takes a mountain of faith as it ignores any semblance of scientific evidence.

  17. By VF Smith | Reply

    Ok,anybody here able to explain how the sexes might have evolved, or how organic matter evolved from inorganic?

    It defies credibility to think that “accidentally” randomness resulted in our universe.

    While the theory of evolution seems to fit in many ways, there is still much more to the puzzle. Eliminating the idea of a sentient Creator is not scientific- it is foolishness.

    A major issue is faith, and that cannot be scientifically dealt with.
    And although evolution might satisfy some as an excellent example of Occam’s Razor, I think one has to be intellectually dishonest in leaving out those critical issues I mention above to suggest it really applies.

    Evolution leaves many questions, while creationism (as expressed strictly biblically) takes a mountain of faith as it ignores any semblance of scientific evidence.

    Is there an origin to matter?

    Anyone see “Schroedy”‘s kittens around lately? :o)

  18. By Tim | Reply

    Simple question which no one has ever answered beyond the old standard “Ummm because they didn’t have to.” If we came from monkeys why are there any monkeys? They just don’t want to change? Why don’t new half monkey men show up from some place that is rarely explored? Where is the “Missing Link”? Plus didn’t Darwin steal his theory from his grandfather, or at the VERY least plagiarize? By the way, I’m not a religious fanatic, I just think if evolution is true the parents of the freak babies would have eaten or killed the abnormal(aka EVOLVED) ones because that’s what happens in the wild. ;)

  19. By Bill | Reply

    Do advocates of “intelligent” design not understand that the rest of the world laughs at us for even having this debate? Children in countries like Japan, China and India far excel American kids in core science subjects. Those kids will be the entreprenuers of tomorrow who will create jobs for their respective countries. This is not new, it has been going on for a generation now!

    Based on the foregoing, I am amazed that people wonder why jobs are leaving the U.S. Wake up people – if we do not address this problem immediately, there will be a further erosion of the U.S.’s status as a superpower. Viewed in this manner, it is anti-American to promote “intelligent” design in schools!

  20. By Jim Kolinsky | Reply

    In the biological realm, evolution (that organisms can change and have changed over time) is considered fact and the mechanism by which it is thought to work, natural selection, is the theory. Therein lies the great misunderstanding. Natural selection is virtually impossible to prove but we have fossil remains of entire family histories of organisms such as horses, pigs, whales and many others that clearly show how they changed over time.

    Another great misunderstanding is the evolution precludes the existence of God, it does not! It is possible that evolution is God’s grand design because it is simple, elegant and universal but it does absolutely refute the Genesis version of creation.

  21. By rob | Reply

    Tim your monkey question has been answered over and over in many different ways.

    Here is one attempt:
    http://karmatics.com/docs/evolution-still-there-are-monkeys.html

    All your questions about “why don’t half monkeys show up” shows a staggering degree of misunderstanding of the concept of evolution.

    By your logic, we have no proof that fingernails that were once short, actually can become long on their own — since no one has ever looked at a fingernail and seen it suddenly become long. The time span that it is “somewhere in between short and long” is much longer than anyone can observe.

    The transition from “monkeys” to human happened over ~40 million years. Or from ape to human, 5-7 million years. Think about this: if your mother was standing next to her mother who was standing next to her mother in a long line….in a quarter mile you’d get to people who lived at the time the pyramids were built. But to get back to the time humans split from chimps, you’d have to go 250 miles. Think about that.

    Luckily, there is plenty of evidence: molecular, fossil, and geological.

  22. By rob | Reply

    Also, Tim, “Plus didn’t Darwin steal his theory from his grandfather, or at the VERY least plagiarize?”: What Darwin contributed was the natural selection component, not that life evolved. Natural selection made it all make sense, though, so when granddad Darwin wrote about it, it didn’t get as much attention. Incidentally, Wallace came up with natural selection around the same time, and they released it together….but Darwin made the case very well.

    Regardless, what does that have to do with the truth of it? Other than showing that one person (you) will form an opinion without doing the slightest bit of research.

  23. By rob | Reply

    “Ok,anybody here able to explain how the sexes might have evolved,”

    Well sex has extremely large advantages when it comes to mixing dna…repairing damage and adapting to new things like parasites. Say I have a damaged gene that reduces my chance of survival, but I also have a new mutation that allows me to defend against a particular microbe. If I have a few kids, probably at least one will have the good mutation but not the bad one….and that one will have the best chance of repreducing himself. In simple organisms that don’t sexually reproduce, this doesn’t happen, so they cannot evolve as quickly.

    The first sexually reproducing organisms were certainly one celled organisms…and it probably happened gradually….the first ones only occasionally mixing dna, possibly by cannibalism.

    ” or how organic matter evolved from inorganic?”

    Organic matter exists even in meteorites. If you mean “living matter”, again, it happened gradually….for the first many millions of years, it was nothing more than a chain reaction: a chemical that catylized the creation of more of itself (from existant raw materials).

  24. By kat | Reply

    WOW! Thats what all the hub-bub has been about? Cause she is open to the POSSIBLITY of considering BOTH. Yea, what an openminded bitch. I really don’t see where, in encouraging debate and discussion, she stated she wanted to OUTLAW evolution and science. Shame on anyone who wants to compromise, what an asshole thing to do trying to find a solution that makes both sides happy.

  25. By rob | Reply

    Just to be clear, Kat, would you feel the same way if someone proposed that an alternative to the “round earth” theory be taught? There is not a shred of scientific evidence for it, any more than there is for any alternative to evolution. So it is not science.

    FWIW, I don’t think she is a “bitch” for suggesting that both sides should be taught. Just wrong.

  26. By Mike | Reply

    Because creationism is not a “truth” it is a “belief”. Creationism can not be measured, tested, or used to predict effects. If creationism were fully accepted, expansion of knowledge would stop dead in its tracks as “all that is unknown must certainly be the work of the creator”.

    If creationism is “truth”, then please provide evidence. If it is a “belief”, then please believe it, shout it from the rafters of your church, but don’t pollute the minds of our youth with mythological stories that are as numerous as all the religions in the world.

  27. By Sarah Palin Pics | Reply

    Man, the hell with Sarah Palin…

    I have a bunch of stuff on her.

    Trig is just a little something to start.

  28. By cathy parlapiano | Reply

    I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school until my junior year of high school. The difficulty with refusing to acknowledge scientific fact within a religious setting is that our science classes were so severely limited. At that time (50 years ago) they were still trying to teach a” 6-day workweek for God and presto done” theory in religion class at 8am and then offer something that one could call “science” in the biology class at 9am. Naturally we wound up memorizing long lists of names for species but no real substance about how things worked.

    I don’t mind intellegent design being given a nod as a way of allowing religiously based parenting to find a way to accept the science of how our world works. There is nothing to gain by keeping some of our population ignorant. I would just say that one has to keep that reference VERY low key because high school students being who they are…the minute you try to say “God” did it; then someone will say “no, Allah did it”; then some Goth will pipe up and say “no, the devil did it” and the next thing you know the whole class will degenerate into a battle of opinions. The kids will be THRILLED.. got a chance to spout opinions all day and didn’t have to study!

  29. By dew | Reply

    Creationism isn’t science or a theory

    As a life long Republican (a long time -now a senior citizen), Palin’s comments on creationism caused me to make a contribution to “Republicans for Obama”. The concept of someone, a heart beat away from the oval office, who understands so little about science, theories and reality, to not know that evolution is an observable reality could not be counted on to make rational decisions. That is dangerous in the modern world.

  30. By Brian | Reply

    Guess Palin watched too much of the flintstones and too little of Mr. Wizard and Nova science Now. She also missed that little debate called the scopes monkey trial of 1925.

  31. By andreas (europe) | Reply

    it really worries me when i think of someone like that women having chances (can’t even believe that!!) to be in a leading position of the most powerful and dangerous country on this planet.

    against abortion after being raped, but for thousands of dead civilians in irak (just an example… there’s other countries america’s at war with.. but probably she has never heard of them..) calling war the will of god (i think it was bush and co)… loving mother… creationism at school (ohohoh… middleage??) and so many more things that are just the opposite of each other! and millions of people don’t care and cheer!!! it leaves me breathless, shocked and scared.

  32. By Sirius | Reply

    Are you kidding? What’s wrong is that it is religion and belongs in your churches and your private homes, not in public schools. It has even recently been defeated. REF: Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School Board; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10545387/ Let’s not step back to the Middle Ages.

  33. By Just me | Reply

    Facts and “truth” might not always fit. Religion often has it’s butt kicked by science. Welcome to reality.

  34. By Zoya | Reply

    Well, for all of you talking about the fossil record you had better look into that a little more carefully. It is fraught with mistakes, and I’d be a little more careful about speaking of something as a fact when it is most definitely not proven to be.

  35. By Sherrie | Reply

    Both ideologies should be taught. Since when is America in favor of censorship?

  36. By Mia | Reply

    It is ok to teach our 6 & 7 year olds about sex, gays, lesbians, abortions, and a lot more garbage… those subjects don’t belong in a classroom. And you psycho marxisits are complaining…or should I say.. scared of teaching Creationism! What a joke. Stop ruining my country with your marxisims ideologies! And you do not know what that means… then why dont you try studying that subject for a change! You’ll be surprise. BRING PRAYER back to Americas schools!!!!!!!! Oh and to make it clear… I do not come from a freaking nasty disgusting monkey! Animal+ human?????????? yeah..thats smart. HAHAHAHAHAH.

  37. By Galdiator | Reply

    your question shows how little you know about evolution. may be you should read more about it before making comments

  38. By Tim's dad | Reply

    Hey Tim, stop smoking crack for a second and listen up.When an animal evolves a genetic mutation takes place and if the animal is sucessful with this mutation it will live on and mate then pass on its genes,(now pay attention)as more generations mate and pass on sucessful mutations the animal EVOLVES into a new species. why dont you read the ORGIN OF SPECIES

  39. By mia's grand dad | Reply

    Now Mia stop telling these lies,we don’t need prayer in schools.Prayer is a waste of time,we taught u better than this. Well if u wont listen to me,can u pray for me to get a boner without viagra

  40. By mia's grand dad | Reply

    U should be scard Andrea you can’t even spell Iraq,Were not at war with irak.Dont worry were the most powerful for a reason, capitalism and deception. we don’t really beleive in god at least those who are running the gov. Religion is just a way to keep the people in check and to keep the rest of the world out of our real bussiness of domonation,so shut your crooked yellow-toothed mouth and dont worry about the U S

  41. By Shannon Gill | Reply

    They should keep the public school system separate from the church. It should NEVER mingle…seriously, and what I have found out on her in the last couple of days…it scares me.

  42. By WIll | Reply

    I’m going to call bullshit on that one, if you were a real scientist then you would know the scientific meaning of the word theory. A theory to layman people is a hypothesis an educated guess, a theory to ACTUAL scientists is about 99.99 percent certain. The heliocentric theory states that the sun is in the center of the solar system, the cell theory says that cells are the building blocks of all living things. They seem pretty obvious don’t they? Scientists do not just throw around the word theory whenever they feel like it.

  43. By Nic Stage | Reply

    I’m not a supporter of Palin at all and the thought of wasting time on religion in a science class frightens me to death (I’m most certainly not a christian). However, to be fair, her comments didn’t say anything about teaching creationism in science class. She kind of implied it, but she didn’t say, “Yes, creationism should be required as part of the science curriculum”. She just said it shouldn’t be a banned topic in public schools in a general sense. And, in that sense, I agree with her. It shouldn’t be taught in science class, or even take any time away from any science class at all, but it shouldn’t be a banned topic in the hallways or outside of classes. If we don’t talk about things, we don’t know about them. If we don’t know things, we become ignorant.

  44. By dave stoler | Reply

    Palin would probably give her left arm to accelerate “the rapture”. That in itself should be a scary enough proposition for most sane voters. Also, unlike Palin, most voters do not believe that Adam and Eve rode a dinosaur!

  45. By Brian | Reply

    Nothing is wrong with teaching the truth. But the truth has never had anything to do with a bunch of religious fruitcakes taking the bible literally.

    This is actually a tragic consequence of the printing press. Only when the bible became available to the masses did idiots start taking it literally. Ignorant people can’t understand metaphor.

    How sad it is to witness the decline of a country created through REASON. Now apparently what passes for a “leader” is a speaking-in-tongues, apocalypse-believing, power-abusing negligent parent who believes dinosaurs roamed the earth 4,000 years ago. Sick, tragic, sad? yes….but also very karmic. The Christians are going to do the job that all the suicide-bombing Muslims in the world could never do in a million years – destroy this country.

  46. By thesharkguys | Reply

    Er, you use scientific ‘principals?’(sic) every day, BW?

    Highly doubtful if you can’t even get the English language down.

  47. By PeterO | Reply

    The argument Palin has given for teaching both evolution and creationism in public schools is that children should be given different philosophical views to debate and allow them to choose between.

    Ok, fine. Then she should also be for teaching Satanism is public school as well. And Buddhism. And Islamic religions. etc.

    You see, if you open the door for one, you have to open the door for ALL. The reason EVOLUTION is taught is that its principles can demonstrated and reproduced in a laboratory with independent verification. You know, the scientific approach…

    In contrast, religions are typically based almost entirely on dogmatic belief. Nuf’ said…

  48. By PeterO | Reply

    “You’ll be surprise. BRING PRAYER back to Americas schools!!!!!!!! Oh and to make it clear… I do not come from a freaking nasty disgusting monkey! Animal+ human?????????? yeah..thats smart. HAHAHAHAHAH.”

    Evolution does not say we are evolved from apes. It says apes and humans evolved from the same earlier existing species that split into multiple branches, two of which are humans and apes.

    So, your right, you DON’T come from a ‘freaking nasty disgusting monkey’. Only religious people trying to debunk evolution say that, and do so from a point of ignorance.

    Personally, I would make the claim that *I* don’t come from just two people who somehow had enough genetic diversity to spawn the entire human race after talking to a snake who convinced one of them to eat an apple. But that’s just me…! ;)

  49. By chantel | Reply

    I believe that since gravity is only a “theory,” that my equally valid theory as to why objects stay on the ground should be taught. I believe that God pushes things down with His all-knowing hands constantly. Now, I’m not saying we avoid teaching our kids the “gravity theorem,” just that, like Sarah, “I am a proponent of teaching both.”

    Godpushesthingsdown.com

    Teach my alternative as well, that’s all I ask.

  50. By Marlaine | Reply

    That is all she does– lie. Plus she is an embarrasment to women who fought for rights. Hey, she likes to hunt and fish, thinks enviromental issues occur naturally, and one should teach creation in schools. On top of that we should go for a war with Russia to defend Georgia….This country cannot be that dumb to want that scary woman for a vice pres and possible pres.

  51. By Marlaine | Reply

    By the truth you do mean evolution, correct?

  52. By spyder | Reply

    I know! I know! The rooster came first!

  53. By kathy | Reply

    Dew, thank you. I hope there are more out there like you.

  54. By Adam | Reply

    Not a thing, as long as it has gone though the scientific method, and has been peer reviewed by fellow scientists.

    Evolution has done this, and once creationism does the same, they are more than welcome to joined along side evolution in the class room. Not a second sooner though.

  55. By Rod | Reply

    From my blog…

    Schools should teach science does not contradict the existence of God and cannot prove the “Big Bang” was not an act of creation. Science only challenges the literal description of creation presented in the Bible, and there are people of great faith who accept interpretation of what they view as symbolic language in the Bible.

    Read the full post at http://rods-voice.blogspot.com/2008/09/social-issues-resolved.html

  56. By ed martinez | Reply

    Most taxpayers believe in God, and creationism, or we wouldn’t have 70% of Americanso polled respond that they believe they”re going to heaven after life on this planet. So if you don’t believe in God but believe in Democracy, how could you deny the majority’s wish? After all, in the 19th century scientists believed that space was filled with an “ether”, then they discarded that, and now in Switzerland they’re proposing a sub atomic particle that may be the equivalent. Much of modern science evolved from hypothesis and no one then said: “Show me now or don’t even talk about it”.
    The entire issue is sterile inasmuch the human species will disappear before difficult
    questions will. So give everyone a break.

  57. By chris | Reply

    What the fuck do you know about goths, you cunt? Get over yourself.

  58. By Mister Pink | Reply

    People speak as if kids are stupid. Perhaps some are. Teach both “theories” and let them decide. The smart ones will make the right choice. If the dull ones make the wrong choice it doesn’t matter.

  59. By minister | Reply

    When did crime rates in the US reach staggering and all time highs? When the bible was taken out of schools.
    What is the main difference between an evolutionist and a christian? Faith…evolutionists have their faith in the existence of a blob that was floating around in outer space billions of years ago that blew up; from that explosion, everything came about accidentally or spontaneously.
    Christians have faith in the existence of a God who was always there. He created the earth and everything on it. He made man in His image.
    Where do you want to place your faith. In the existence of a blob… or in the existence of God? I choose God.

  60. By karlomarx74 | Reply

    A minister believing what he was conditioned to believe. A novel concept. Don’t fault others for lacking your “faith” in an absent being. We are all inconsequential in the vastness of the universe.

    I used to say grace before my evening meal. I’d invite guests over to my dinner table, and feel compelled to make a big show of giving thanks to God for providing us with the meal, for allowing us a roof over our heads, and the blessings of health and safety during travel, blah, blah, blah…and then I grew out of it.

    It was a hard step to make.

    It makes no sense to me to put up that front, to go thru the motions of speaking to an entity that is not present. I’ve never seen God at my table.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m very thankful, but i don’t feel a need to profess my gratitude to an unresponsive being. I feel more joy and comfort speaking directly to the loved ones that have entered my home to partake of the bounty that my family has provided. I choose to speak to the tangible.

    I guess i just got tired of knocking at the door and receiving no answer.

    Anyways, the point is, as long as humans keep running around this planet hoping their imaginary friends will come thru at the moment of truth to save the day, we as a race have no need to fear the moment of truth.

    BUT, once we get to the moment of truth, and our imaginary friends do not show, what then?

    A (paraphrased) quote from Nietschke:

    Which is the greater mistake, that God created man in his own image or that man created God in their own image…?

    P.S. God, if you are reading this, forgive me.

  61. By alex | Reply

    what the hell is wrong with this country? why are we the very few morons in the western world that constantly have to throw religion into everything? get over it! if you are a religious person keep it to yourself. why do these people have to shove their beliefs an ideals down everyone else’s throats? so what about the parents that don’t want their children to learn about creationism? do we not have a voice?
    this idea about creationism is just that, and idea! there is not any science behind it, it cannot be tested or measured. so why would you teach something like that in a science course? it would be like teaching algebra in a literature class. if you were to send your child to a christian school then creationism being taught would be expected, but public school is something totally different. there is a separation of church and state you know. why is it that all these right wing christians will talk endlessly about how great america is and how much better and free we are than the rest of the world, yet they constantly try to undermine the constitution and the values of the founding fathers? if you want your poor child to learn about creationism then take him/ her to your local church after school so they can learn about it.
    and to minister, where did you get your statistics about crime correlating with the bible being removed from school? did you get this, from the fbi statistics or pat robertson? how about the children that are jewish, muslim, etc? should they be forced to read the bible?

  62. By Susan Easterday | Reply

    There is lots of scientific evidence in the fossil record that supports intelligent design. See http://www.answersingenesis.org. This isn’t just a “religious” discussion. But the only thing you can come up with is evolution– if there is no intelligent creator or God. So that’s what most of this comes down to is whether there is a God or not.

  63. By alex | Reply

    To Mia

    You are a complete moron. are you calling the founding fathers marxists? does it not say in the CONSTITUTION that there will be a separation of church and state? if you are so worried about people ruining your country, then maybe you should start looking at yourself. you and your pathetic bunch of insecure religious nut jobs are the ones ruining the country. if you want to indoctrinate your child with all your religious mumbo jumbo, you can do it at home. you don’t need the school system for that.

  64. By Jesus W. | Reply

    I think along the lines of Bill Whalen. Yes, I think that we (me being 14) should learn about these theories but that is all we should learn that they are. If we want to learn more about creationism or any other theory then that’s a choice we make as an individual. Creationism in schools kinda goes against the idea of separation of church and state ,but all well.

    P.S. I have an atheist and catholic parent so I’m a little split.

  65. By Hammershield | Reply

    I agree it’s about time we taught real science in classrooms. Saddle up those dinos and let’s wrangle the truth here. The Earth is only 4,000 years old. We know this from the Bible. That’s good news. It means oil is only about 100 years old. So all we got to do is wait a few years, maybe 20, and start drillin’ in all the landfills. Sweet crude. Sweet Jesus. Energy crisis solved. Evolution? Who needs it? Faith-based science — yeah, that’s the ticket! Well, I believe it’s time to teleport back to Remulak. See ya’ll.

  66. By Wardrik | Reply

    ok lets be turthful here Creationism is just Religion
    the Christians couldn’t get “god” in school through the front door , so they wraped him up in a nice new box “creationism” and called it science and now trying the backdoor
    teach “religion” at a church
    teach “science” at schools
    if you believe in god and all that go to a religious school
    and leave the rest of us alone

  67. By Michael Lang | Reply

    Hammershield gets the biscuit for the wittiest and probably most honest comment this week. With all of the bizzare, off the wall, misinformed comments made on this subject, yours is by far worth publishng again…
    ….
    Comment:
    I agree it’s about time we taught real science in classrooms. Saddle up those dinos and let’s wrangle the truth here. The Earth is only 4,000 years old. We know this from the Bible. That’s good news. It means oil is only about 100 years old. So all we got to do is wait a few years, maybe 20, and start drillin’ in all the landfills. Sweet crude. Sweet Jesus. Energy crisis solved. Evolution? Who needs it? Faith-based science — yeah, that’s the ticket! Well, I believe it’s time to teleport back to Remulak. See ya’ll.

    Mike Lang
    Publisher

  68. By Darren | Reply

    What is your profession…Wizard?

  69. By Andras | Reply

    I am not American but I always admired America for their world lead in technology and sciences. Now it looks like to me that America will lose not only their economic leadership but also their scientific leadership as well if they want to bring back the middle ages to their schools. Its a real shame. The world is already looking at this debate over creationism or evolution in a disbelief. 400 years ago in Europe a similar dispute was going on with Galileo Galilei. Whether the earth is flat or not , or it is the center of the universe or not.
    Since then Europe separeted church from state and we teach theories based on scientific evidence not religious beliefs in our public schools Everything has its place. Evolution is science. Creationism is a fundamentalist religious belief. Dear Americans, don’t let your schools sink to the level of muslim fundamental countries where state and church are not separated. Your are ruining your position in the world. Sarah Palin can easiliy become president, because Mc Cain is very old. Do you want a religious fundamentalist to govern your country?

  70. By cbrown | Reply

    Nik (9/10) makes a good point. We are speaking about what Sarah Palin thinks and the article printed does not say that she thinks intelligent design should be taught in science class, just that it should be taught in schools. There is room in our schools for dissent, disagreement and debate. It is one of the great strengths of America.
    Jim K (9/5) also makes a good point that there is no conflict between the theory of evolution and the existence of God. They are ultimately and supremely compatible.
    Now, if we want to talk about theories, thanks, Chantel (9/11), Ha Ha, that’s great!

  71. By Offended | Reply

    I find this article extremely offensive. What’s this garbage about “anti-science” views? Are you trying to insinuate that belief in God goes against science? These people obviously never looked much into religion, because Christian creationism (true christian creationism, though there are many forms with a great many people believing a variety of things) is the belief that the world did not come into being by chance. It is the belief of HOW science came about, not it’s legitimacy. It’s not a question of being right or wrong, it’s a question of how it all began. Evolutionists believe the earth came into being all on it’s own. Creationists believe the earth was created by God. We are not disputing science. In fact, most scientific discoveries were first made and recorded by famous scientists who believed strongly in a higher power. Look it up and get your facts straight.

    Also, I don’t see what’s so bad about people believing in God. I mean, really, “OH HEAVEN FORBID, that we MIGHT teach our children to value all life, love each other, have hope for the future, and believe in a greater power then themselves.”

    And for those of you saying that religious nuts are ruining this country, remember that it was these “nuts” who built this country. We came to America for religious freedom. That was one of the main issues when America was first established. Why do you think they said “One nation, under God”?

    As for Sarah Palin, I agree with her.
    She wants people to keep an open mind and not teach Evolution as an absolute truth to children, but instead keep it as a theory and allow debates if they come up. Considering that so many people dispute the belief of evolution why should it be the only one taught? Either take it out of public schools or have a “ways the earth could have begun” class.

  72. By Michael Lang | Reply

    Dear Offended,

    It is not a shocker that you are offended. It is perfectly natural when you “lead with your chin” and then get knocked out as a result.
    On the surface your statements might make a valid argumment until your enter in the “real facts” and “whole truths” instead of half truths.
    You see this is what happens when people forget about separation of church and state. I have no problem with you believing whatever it is you believe. You also mix your arguments by confusing belief in god with elevating creationism up as fact. Firstly, the two are separate and distinct….not one and the same!

    Check out a feature article written after The Lang Report was inundated with comments. See: http://www.thelangreport.com/featured/sarah-palins-primer-on-creationism-versus-evolution/

    Ironically, I received the enclosed comment right after I received yours. MarkM writes,
    Kitzmiller v. Dover Sch. Dist., 400 F. Supp. 2d 707 (2005). Pennsylvania US District Court ruled creationism was religion, not science. Creationism in this case was deemed in violation of the Pennsylvania Constitution and the Establishment Clause, i.e., the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Palin would not succeed in having creationism taught in public schools. Leave it to the homeschoolers, bible schools, or anyone else, as long as they do not receive any federal or state assistance or funds.

    Viva la difference?

    Mike Lang
    Publisher

  73. By Offended | Reply

    Here is a comparison of the two beliefs.

    Evolution/Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, with no help from any outside force. This created everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

    There is no God. You don’t have to answer to anyone when you die, so why should you have any kind of morals? Life was created by chance, by accident. There’s no reason to value human life. Humans are no better than animals and will die off one day just like the dinosaurs.

    Evolution encourages crime, suicide, and depression.

    Creationism/Christianity: In the beggining God created everything. He designed every complex creature. Each with the ability to live and thrive on Earth.

    He created man specifically in his image. Man is a creature above all others, and each has responsibility for his own actions. It is up to the human race to take care of the earth and each other. Every life has a purpose according to God and every life is sacred. When we die we have hope of a life beyond that and we know we’ll see our deceased loved ones agian.

    Though there are some who take it to far and judge others, (or grossly misconstrue the Lord’s teachings) the bible specifically says “Let thee who is without sin cast the first stone” and teaches to not judge or hurt others.

    —–

    So, which one of these theories would you rather the general public believe in? I gurantee you, there would be many less teen suicides if the bible was brought back to schools.

  74. By Michael Lang | Reply

    Hey Offended….FUCK YOU!! Now you should be offended!

    How dare you make statements like: “You don’t have to answer to anyone when you die, so why should you have any kind of morals?”

    Therein lies the problem with people like you and Sarah Palin. It is not enough that you mix fact with fiction…you have to belittle anyone that doesn’t believe as you do.

    Do you know what it is called when someone “imposes” their beliefs on someone else?
    VIOLENCE!
    That’s right…you are preaching violence when you preach your “believe as I do or get out of Dodgee” bullshit.

    But I do encourage you to continue to share whatever you want and i will continue to publish it despite my personal beliefs.
    THAT’S DEMOCACY.

    Mike Lang
    Publisher

  75. By Offended | Reply

    Oh by the way, sorry if there’s any confusion. That last comment was about the other anti-religious posters. Just pointing out that religion is actually a good thing.

    But I know that some evolutionists believe in God, and that God created evolution. That comment was not to say that all those who believe in evolution don’t believe in God.

    I should have said “Atheist Evolutionists” or just Atheists.

    I was not impling that we needed to force the bible into all schools. Just that religion is good and that it wouldn’t be bad to have it taught to our children. I also meant that I don’t believe in Evolution, many others don’t, and there’s no reason for it to be the only belief taught in class. Even if you believe it, alot of us still consider it a theory. Until it is absolute proven fact I don’t think it should be taught as real science.

  76. By Offended | Reply

    My gosh, what is your problem? “Fuck you”? Is there really need for this?

    I’m not belittling you and I trully apologize if I seemed that way. Here’s the problem with “you people”. You get upset over the tiniest of details and resort to unnessary anger to get your point across.

    I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone. What gave you this idea? All I’m saying is to keep an open mind and to not teach evolution as truth in schools. How is this imposing beliefs? If anything you people are just upset when anyone has a belief that you are wrong. That’s just my belief and oppinion. So, I will say it. I believe you are WRONG.
    That didn’t hurt you now did it?
    I’m not going to force you to read the bible, go to church, or listen to that pop christian music.

    “believe as I do or get out of Dodgee”
    I never said anything like this. Ever. Infact, this is sort of what you’re saying to me. “FUCK YOU” becuase I said something you don’t believe in. This IS democracy and I have just as much a right to an oppinion as you, so why are you getting so upset about it?

    Also, I believe you’re judging my character based upon already biased oppinions of religion. You assume that because I’m a christian I’m going to force my beliefs on you and you are already up in arms about it.

  77. By Offended | Reply

    Also, just to clarify. When I said “You don’t have to answer to anyone when you die, so why should you have any kind of morals?”

    This was not a stab at evolutionists morals. This was an honest question. Why would you? Really. I am asking you. The very idea that life was created by chance and is meaningless, is mind boggling. No wonder people cause so much desruction. When this is taught to children what do you expect from the world?

  78. By Offended | Reply

    I don’t believe that religion should be forced but I agree with Sarah Palin that public school systems should be fair and balanced!

    I am sorry if I offended anyone, but there are far more offensive statements being made to Christians on this page both from the article and other posters. “Religious nuts”, religion ruining this country, Christianity being compared to wizadry. It’s a load of bull. Most of my statements were directed more to other posters than to the article itself.

    I believe in freedom of speech, and the right to believe whatever it is you want. Because as you said “That is democracy”

    As evolution is a theory, I believe that they should teach other theories to be fair or none at all.

  79. By MarkM | Reply

    Intelligent Design (ID) and/or creationism lack the ability to withstand scientific scrutiny. To “accept” either or both calls for religious belief. To teach the same in public schools would be granting a religious preference, which is clearly a violation of the Establishment Clause. The Establishment Clause requires states to remain neutral with respect to religion. In Bd. of Educ. of Kiryas Joel Vill. Sch. Dist. v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that “government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion.”

    ID and creationism cannot stand on their own and require Christian and theistic convictions. Particularly, faith, perhaps best defined by Bram Stoker: “. . . that faculty which enables us to believe things which we know to be untrue.”

    Palin’s argument that no harm would be done teaching creationism alongside or as an alternative to evolution makes absolutely no sense, carries no water. If her argument will not stand under judicial examination (which it won’t, Kitzmiller was not challenged or appealed), it is nothing more than a waste of taxpayers time and money.

  80. By MarkM | Reply

    History is, but when theology is brought into the public school classroom, conflict and disaster are being courted. An excellent article by Dana Parsons in the LA Times does a good job of describing why. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/15/local/me-parsons15

  81. By Dani | Reply

    She doesn’t want it taught you ding-dong. She said that she thinks it should be allowed to be discussed. Get your facts straight before you go ranting on.

  82. By Allen Morton | Reply

    It’s no wonder our people are getting dumber when we refuse to separate facts and faith. Science is based on observation and hypothesis which through tests and scientific consensus lead to theories, and theories can evolve over time, it’s called the scientific method. Religion is based on faith with the test in Christianity believing in Jesus as our savior to gain God’s grace for everlasting life. Let Americans honor their Constitution and leave the teaching of science to consensus in the public realm, and the teaching of religion by the church and their congregations.

  83. By Adam | Reply

    Bella,

    The difference between preaching and teaching is very slim. I feel that if we taught the ‘existence’ of religion in this country, teachers would obviosuly put a cultered spin on all the religions…i.e. christianity=good islam=bad, which, most would agree, is not the impression we want to leave our young population with. I realize that it would not just be as black and white as that, but I can forsee our culture’s influence tampering with the teachings of the world’s religions, especially of those that are foreign to most people.
    Also the question of seperation of church and state come into play when teaching religion in a public school system from not only a k-8 level, but also for high schoolers.

  84. By MarkM | Reply

    Sarah saw a dinosaur bone with a human footprint on it!

  85. By Jake | Reply

    Obama and Palin are actually both advocates for teaching creationism in schools according to their own words:

    “When science teachers insist on keeping creationism or intelligent design out of their classrooms, they are not asserting that scientific knowledge is superior to religious insight. They are simply insisting that each path to knowledge involves different rules and that those rules are not interchangeable.” – Audacity of Hope by Barack Obama, p. 219.

    “Teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of education. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.” – Sarah Palin

  86. By Worried in Wales | Reply

    In western society, only delusional and ignorant people can believe in creationism.

    Christianity is born out of fear, force and hope like most religions. It was more than likely forced upon your ancestors a long time ago and they were forced to teach it to their children when there were no other known alternative answers to creation. Since then it may well have become accepted in your community and family as fact. Unfortunately the bible is not wholly factual. Excuse the pun.

    The scientific discovery of evolution and natural selection put an end to the debate on where all the animals, including us, came from. If you really think that the master sages who wrote the bible omitted to mention that dinosaurs once roamed the earth “as it wasn’t worth a mention”, rather than the fact that they lived in a time when people still had no scientific understanding of where we all came from, then you are blind to facts and open to delusion suggestion. Lots of people are like you. It doesn’t make you right, your special word “faith”.

    Religion should be excluded from all schools, as the only answer religious people from all faiths, backgrounds and denominations can come up with to counter all scientific arguments is the word “faith”. It makes them happy because other people they know are deluded too. They all have “faith” together. We non-believers will suffer ever lasting purgatory they smugly say to each other. It should make you happy to know that you are wrong on this point, some of you will be unhappy that we’re all in the same boat no matter what our belief is.

    Most of the people in middle america haven’t even been out of their country. If they did travel, they would realise that there are lots of similar “faiths” all around the world. Different gods and different Jesus’s, with different names. They all think they are right in their belief and lots of people are willing to die for their own personal Jesus.

    Please, please, America – you can not trust a man who chooses a woman to be VP when he has no real idea what she’s like. Especially when she has no concept of what taxes are or where the rest of the world is – and whether it is truly round…. Would you choose a running mate that you didn’t know?

    You are the most powerful nation in the world. You have a very frightening choice. Please pick Obama, because he does at least have some basic sense and understanding of the rest of the world. You are not the only people to have “faith”. Please keep it if it makes you happy, but please try a little bit of understanding too. Please don’t pick that frightening woman!!!!!

  87. By Ron Russell | Reply

    Yea and the pope is Jewish.

  88. By Allen Morton | Reply

    Folks, we don’t discover underground petroleum reservoirs using faith based concepts of intelligent design or creationism, we use scientific theories related to the study of science. If we relied on faith based concepts, our science classes would become religious pulpits causing the loss of technological advances. The real problem is too many Americans fail to study and comprehend the knowledge presented in public schools. It’s easy to form opinions but much more difficult to properly develop arguments for debate. The bliss of ignorance weakens America. It is likely that many of those who argue for religious studies in our public schools are lazy and/or afraid to study sciences such as geology, botany, invertebrate zoology, comparative vertebrate anatomy, and genetics. By the way, are Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses Christians? They say they are. But according to others, they’re just cults. Apparently it all depends on how you believe in Jesus. Please stop the dumbing down of America by studying hard and doing your homework when in public school. This means learning algebra and trigonometry, too. If desired, you can go study in the church of your choice to make yourself feel good about where you came from and where you’re going in regard to metaphysics, but this isn’t science!

  89. By Michael Lang | Reply

    Allen, thank you for a very insightful and intelligent comment. It’s refreshing to publish comments that present a well thought out argument based on fact.
    This article has created the kind of controversy that tends to illuminate the ignorance of many of my readers.
    I have no problem publishing any opinion even if it couldn’t stand long under scrutiny or debate.

    Mike Lang
    Publisher

  90. By wally odom | Reply

    I think it has come to a sad time when people acually think we as a human race have come by any other way than creation.I could have a lot to say on this manner but i’m sure you have only a limited amount of space on here.If you find you a sprit led …yes “SPIRIT LED” church to give you the right thing…not just a gathering of people that has no feelings in it..you would believe in creation and not this garbage they teach today in school..so if you want to believe you came from a monkey go somewhere and chew on you a banana and stop trying to cram this garbage down the throats of people

  91. By tim | Reply

    religious. learn to spell if you want to set the curriculum.

  92. By tim | Reply

    comment was directed towards bella. not to be rud, but, as for your 84%, they don’t all believe in what you do. as for the rest of you ‘creationist’ belivers, believe what you want. we’ll believe what we want. if you believe so strongly in God, the phrase ‘we are all god’s children’, should mean something. if you take that phrase to heart, then, we are all just part of the biggest dysfunctional family in history. you are just that crazy uncle nobody wants to talk to. thank you.

  93. By tim | Reply

    last comment. just had one more thing to talk about. mia – you are just crazy. with a capital WTF?!?!?! where do you get you sick ideals from? sunday morning evangelical shows? first things first. somebody needs some edumucation. i’m sorry. that was unkind. you should go back to whatever podunk, illiterate school that deemed you worthy of a diploma and demand retesting. you need to learn how to spell. first, a lot should be alot. second, marxisims ideologies should be marxist ideologies. just work on that for me, will you? i don’t mean to hate, but, you and your opinions are just plain ignorant (ooh, big word). thus endeth the lesson. now, go read a book. i hear dr. seuss is pretty good. let me know how that works out for you.

  94. By Michael | Reply

    Palin is a creationist, but certainly doesn’t push her beliefs in public office…

    “As far as I know, Gov. Palin has not been aggressive on this front,” Matt Olson, a biology professor at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, said in an e-mail. “Up to now she has not pushed an agenda to teach creationism in public schools.” New York Daily

    Palin does believe intelligent design or creationism should be discussed in class, she doesn’t really push for it in government.

    It’s true liberals who endorse evolution very firmly, are in fact worried about this issue, that is why Palin’s beliefs are brought up on this subject a lot, but the ACLU has been pretty much silent on this issue, as there was no agenda pushed on the schools by Gov. Palin.

  95. By Allen Morton | Reply

    Michael,
    Your comment about “true liberals who endorse evolution” indicates your ignorance and inability to think clearly. True scientists don’t base their findings on political or religious views and in fact the entire consensus group, which is very large, contains a mix of liberal, moderate, conservative, and religious people. Puritans like you weaken the United States as a world power, and Sarah Palin certainly sounds like your type. If Puritanical bullshit continues to spread across the United States, the stench of ignorance will eventually erode our freedom and world power. We’ll need alot of toilet paper to clean the stains on our Constitution made by the self proclaimed rightous. Fanatics are never a healthy substitute for reasonable people.

  96. By patty | Reply

    Uh…humans are animals, last time I checked. Either that or vegetables, or minerals. those are the only options.

  97. By Johnson Foster | Reply

    I think that creationism is much better than the evidence for evolution, because God is testing our faith with fossils and that kind of thing. Evolution is an illusion and if you believe it you will go to hell, it is His test for us. This was revealed to me after a lifetime spent in science, because the fossil record just doesn’t have any rhyme or reason. It is just as easy to believe in Him than it is to believe in some monster dinosaur recreated from a few bones. Secular science will never triumph over belief in the magic of God’s creation and our puny mortal minds will never triumph over His tests of our faith. Science has failed us, it is a symbol of human arrogance, and it is time to go back to the old ways, and traditions and mysteries and put things right.

    Praise the Lord Almighty, creator of the Universe and all things in it!

  98. By Neil | Reply

    you would. in religious studies. not science.

  99. By Allen Morton | Reply

    It sounds like Johnson Foster, a lifetime “scientist” in his words, wants us to go back to the “good old days” of believing nonsense such as the earth is the center of the universe, an idea which in the past sometimes meant the punishment of death to those who disagreed, even when scientific evidence proved otherwise. His type of Puritanical kookiness breeds contempt for logic, which is not much different than the religious kookiness in Iran that breeds terrorism. Elect too many of his type to power and expect the possibility of laws to be made for punishment of anyone who believes that dinosaurs existed on earth in the past. An exaggeration? Study history, and you will find it may not be far from reality if we allow religious nuts to take over.

  100. By Brody | Reply

    HOw can you say that eveolution is found in the Fossile record, you can dissprove evolution by useing fossils as an example. there are many different instences where the fossile record has failed evolutionists. Infact Fossiles can prove that their was a world wide flood, as recorded in the bible. The only way you can produse a fossile is by rapid covering by water and pressure. and… a little off the topic… but when has an exsplosion ever crated anything??? there are so many parts of evolution that has constantly been changing becuse evolutioniust have not been able to “Make up” there mind. The bible has never changed and never will. The “theory” of creation has never changed and there is more proof agenst evolution than there is for it.

    thanks for you time
    -Brody

  101. By Allen Morton | Reply

    Thank you for your comment, Brody. Your extremely poor spelling alone makes my point about ignorant people and their inability to think clearly. You can’t even properly use the words “there” and “their”, in addition to many other mistakes you made, so how can anyone expect you to comprehend the theories of science. My guess is you are either too young (2nd grade in school?), mentally impaired, a drug addict, or you failed to study your English lessons. Whatever the case, if you are an American, you represent the problem that is running rampant in our country. It’s called being stupid, and I will pray for you and our country. God gave us a complex brain to think intelligently. I suggest you pray to God to show you the way to intelligence because right now it looks like you have a long road ahead of you. Please accelerate!

  102. By Allen Morton | Reply

    Bill Whalen, please provide some details about your scientific education and 20 year career in science. Biologist? Geneticist? Engineer? Paleontologist? Just curious.

  103. By Jimbo | Reply

    Once again the debate of evolution vs creationism/intelligent design has overlooked Pastafarianism. The FSM is true and real and should also be introduced into the education system as a viable alternative.

  104. By Tony | Reply

    I totally agree with Offended. I believe that creationism should be taught alongside evolutionism in schools for some “healthy debate” it would make class a lot more interesting and educational

    P.S. i’m 15

  105. By Tony | Reply

    I believe that creationism should be taught alongside evolutionism in schools for some “healthy debate” it would make class a lot more interesting and educational. i was leaning toward Mike Lang until he used unnecessary language. Offended is right

    P.S. i’m 15

  106. By Tony | Reply

    oh a little late :P

  107. By Tony | Reply

    i love this wall! comment thing, whatever. i’ve seen lots of kids at school debate about politics. i would love to see a “healthy debate” about creationism vs. evolutionism in biology.

  108. By Allen Morton | Reply

    Okay class, it’s Sunday morning and time for Sunday school. I’m your teacher today. Open your Bible and repeat after me. “Man did not evolve from primates. Adam came from dust. Eve came from Adam’s rib. Behold the wonder of God’s creation. All of this happened just a few thousand years ago. Dinosaur fossils are a trick fabricated by the Devil and popularized by Stephen Spielberg for the movies.” Tomorrow it’s Monday and time for more Sunday school. “Scientists and fossils are a bunch of baloney. They are the work of the Devil to deceive us. Because of this, we should put paleontologists and similar misfit scientists in concentration camps like what the Nazis did to the Jews. On Tuesday we will discuss the reason why Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are not really Christians. We will also discuss why all non-Christians are doomed to hell unless they accept Jesus Christ as their savior because he died on the cross for their sins. Let’s pray for Armeggedon to come quickly so we can leave this wicked earthly place and go to Heaven. There is no need to do your reading, writing, and arithmetic lessons because Rapture is almost here.” Ah, the sweetness of an institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices in our public schools. I can’t wait to see the burning of witches. Sarah Palin will lead us in our Crusade!

  109. By Ben | Reply

    Right there with you Jimbo!!

    Ramen….

  110. By Dejan | Reply

    Look at all these science hypocrits who know nothing about Evolution at all. The hypocricy they have to say that “Creation should not be taught because its religious, but Evolution should be taught because its scientific” What ignorant people! Evolution is a RELIGION with NO evidence, we wasted billions of dollars researching this useless theory and got NOTHING at all. Its not even funny anymore, this theory should be thrown out because it is pure garbage.

    And all these Hypocrits saying “They should keep the schools seperate from the church” have no IDEA about History, nor do they know that when America started, The Bible was a part of every school and it did us better, there was FAR Less crimes, murders, teenage pregnancy was nearly unheard of back then and people actually lived more holy, not as dogs as we do today.

    The founding fathers of America said that the “Politics should be kept out of the church, but the church should be in Schools” as it was for hundreds of years before these Evolution propogandas kicked in.

  111. By Dejan | Reply

    The fossil record is proof now? hahahaha, so your telling me you KNOW by looking at a dead fossil where all animals come from? You cannot prove that any dead bone evolved from this bone, its all speculation, religious propoganda from the Evolution Police. LOL.

  112. By The Emperor | Reply

    How interesting that such a big fight is breaking out over teaching creationsim in school.

    I say go ahead, but you reap what you sow. I am going to encourage my children to have some fun screwing around during this lesson and on the tests.

    For example, if a test question asks who created life, I don’t think the answer should just be limited to the myths of Jehovah/Allah/God.
    It should also take into account:
    Odin of Norse Mythology
    Zeus from the Greeks
    Marduk after slaying the five-headed dragon Tiamat in Babylonian mythology
    Brahma from the Hindu’s
    Quetzalcoatal of Aztec stories

    But the grand truth of it is that that life was created by the Elder Things prior to their war with Great Cthulhu of R’yleh and his allies as is written by Abdul Al-Harzhad in the Necronomican.

    And if the answers my children use are considered wrong, then the teacher is obviously showing a religious bias against all other creationist ideas except for his or her own Christian beliefs and is therefore being insensitive to their religious beliefs resulting in me making like a pirate from the lawsuit.

    If we are going to have the Bible in class, then I think we need to have Greek, Babylonian, Chinese, Japanese, Hindu, Norse, Roman, and Satan Holy Books (among others) as well as the Necronomican.

    The rules work both ways but as is typical of Christians, they tend to whine when you use their rules against them.

  113. By stellahark | Reply

    In response to your article ‘Sarah Palin Wants Creationism Taught in School’, I would like to bring up some errors you have claimed as fact. I would like to inform you that the creation theory is not in any way viewed as ‘magic’ even among some atheistic circles. Creationists cite many reasoned and logical proofs for the existence of an intelligent designer or supreme being that began the creation of the world. Let me give you an example. Our entire world system works in a cause and effect relationship. Even evolution follows this causality wherein one species mates with another which then causes a different species to evolve resulting in an effect. All effects must have a cause and this chain reaction cannot be infinite because our entire world revolves around the passing of time up until this very moment. How did time begin? How did this cause and effect relationship get set into motion? Many evolutionists point to the Big Bang Theory to explain this phenomena; however, the Big Bang Theory never explains how the very first piece of matter existed and how it first started to move. Scientists are currently attempting to recreate the Big Bang Theory in order to answer this question and find the invisible ‘God particle’. Creationists take the next step in logic to explain that an uncaused cause must have begun this process (whether evolutionary or not) and this uncaused cause must be an intelligent mind. Using the simple logic of cause and effect, one can reason their way into becoming a creationist. Therefore, how can a reasoned claim for the creation theory not be a ‘fair and balanced’ addition to school curriculae?

    As you cited several court cases, you claim that the creation theory is termed as ‘religion’ rather than ‘science’ and violates the constitutional precedent of separation of church and state. However, I never even mentioned a belief in ‘God’ in my proof for the beginning of the world through the creation theory. I merely stated the existence of an ‘intelligent mind’ that only could have caused this to begin. Intelligent design is not a strictly religious standpoint. Many atheists and agnostics also accept intelligent design. In fact, if something in science suddenly becomes so sacrosanct that you can’t question it, then it ceases to be science. It’s actually a contradiction of the principles of science and the scientific method, which require testing, evidence, proof etc. The refusal to teach anything but evolution in schools absolutely contradicts the essence of scientific experimentation and the seeking of truth. There isn’t enough evidence to support evolution as fact and it certainly does not answer the questions of why human beings have a soul/free will/intellect (as opposed to the apes they evolved from) or a purpose to life.

    You quote two seemingly qualified scholars in your article. Barbara Forrest classifies Palin as pleasing the “religious right” and having “anti-science views”. I do not think Forrest even critically read Palin’s remarks. Palin did not in anyway disagree with evolution or promote a creation-only platform. Rather, she advocated “healthy debate and teaching both in our schools”. Also, Lawrence Lerner is quoted saying, “A person who’s a creationist doesn’t understand science and technology at all.” Oh dear. I suppose Lerner is willing to place that admonition upon Sir Isaac Newton, Copernicus, Maury and many other well-known advancers in the scientific field who also happened to be creationists. Finally, the desire to instate the creation theory into schools as “alternatives” to the evolution theory is condemned as a “euphemism” for an extreme Christian and theistic church-over-state push. I find this very offensive. The Catholic school system proudly teaches both “alternatives” for the beginning of the world and does not commit the same crime of refusing to teach the evolution theory because it is a “whacked out methodology”.

  114. By david andrew | Reply

    Evolution is a fact. There is no debate here on this topic. By the way, if you do let your religion interfere with common sense, you are by no means intelligent or worthy of holding any important position in the job force, period.

    I would like to respond to stellahark. Yes, the creation hypothesis is in fact viewed as silly magic and also… dangerous. Why? Because it’s religion imposing itself on science. That’s a slippery slope kids and not progress. If you believe in creationism you are NOT intelligent… No matter how many big words you use, your inability to see logic in this one aspect of life, leaves you mentally handicapped in my opinion. Please, keep your beliefs private and please stop hurting the education system, it’s already hurting enough without this mental exercise in ignorance, utter stupidity and unmitigated mediocrity.

    believe what you want, but leave me, my family and countless others alone to pursue real knowledge. And also to OFFENDED, fuck you… ha, that’s funny..

  115. By Broadlands | Reply

    Like a great many people, there is consistent confusion between the EVIDENCE for evolution (e.g., fossil record) and the MECHANISMS of evolution. The mechanisms are clearly not well understood and provide fodder for creationists. But the observable, repeatable, testable fossil record of increasing size and complexity through geological time is unequivocal evidence for evolution. Just study the fossils in the flat lying rocks of the Grand Canyon as a text-book example. Even if they were deposited in a “great flood”, solidified and and the canyon carved in a few thousand years, the sequence from bottom to top is clear. This cannot PLAUSIBLY be explained in a non-evolutionary context.

  116. By Broadlands | Reply

    My previous post was in response to scientist(?) Bill Whalen (Sept 2). He says: “I am a real scientist and have been for the past 20 years on a daily basis. I use scientific principals every day in my profession.”

    Has he told us what sort of a scientist he is and what his background is? Doesn’t seem like he was well educated in scientific principles. Might be making that up?

  117. By usuck | Reply

    According to Mr. Gary Jacobsen, he does not think there is no proof for creation……

    READ THE BIBLE YOU SMART ASS

    If scientist think fossils are the evidence, then creationist think bible is the evidence.
    Fighting over another’s opinion? Why don’t Mr. Jacobsen have a conversation with his friend in elementary school rather than here?

  118. By anyoumous | Reply

    I just want to say that being a public school student, I want creationism to be taught in our schools. I t is so hard to belive all of these people who have gone so far astray from the One who created them. Just as a sidenote,I want to ask all of you: why do we feel guilty? How do we know that something we do is wrong? The Truth and right from wrong have been written in our hearts by Him before He even created the heavens and the earth. He knew the whole Story way before any of this was created. We are the design and He, God, is the designer. Nothing just “appered”. I long for this to be taught in schools. We, as students, should learn how to think and make decisions for ourselves about what we belive in.
    If you want to argue, go ahead. I just want to say, think everything through before you argue. Some people just don’t know what they are talking about.

  119. By anyoumous | Reply

    Oh, and i really love how offened put it. Very good point! Evolution encourages that there is no point to life and nothing after it. I would hate to live if that was true!!! I have a purpose and a place in this world. I have been created for a specific purpose. Doesn’t that sound a lot better?

  120. By anyoumous | Reply

    p.s. i’m in the 8th grade. yeah, i’m young.

    :)

  121. By The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing. | Reply

    anyoumous: “I t is so hard to belive all of these people who have gone so far astray from the One who created them.”

    Sorry, if God exists, he’s done a poor job of showing me any proof of his existence. Why doesn’t he just pick up the phone and call once in a while? I’ve come to the conclusion he’s and incompetent selfish asshole, based on the fact he never says hello, and not to mention all the evil and horrible things he did in the old testament.

    But wait… It says we’re made in his image. I guess that means we’re all evil bastards that would bring plagues and mass murders upon innocents…

    The fact that Christians preach a loving creator is a big reason I think the bible is bullshit. If they preached and evil oppressive dictator, I would think their religious theory was closer to the truth.

  122. By stellahark | Reply

    In response to David Andrew, if there is no debate about evolution, then obviously you haven’t watched any of the presidential debates or read many scientific articles on the web. It IS in debate! If everyone in the world kept their ‘beliefs private’, we could not have a governmental system that impose laws upon the injustice of killing another human being, or that rape is unjust. Our laws come from our beliefs about humanity!!! Our society would be in mass chaos if we all kept silent. You seem quite disturbed by my ‘unintelligent’ beliefs, but I cannot understand why they would bother you so much. If you really think I am so dumb, why get so belligerant? Just dismiss it and move on. I encourage you to take time to study the issue and back up your statements that Evolution is FACT; instead of wasting so much breath on cursing me.

  123. By Flagg | Reply

    Hahahahahahahahahahhaha!

  124. By Flagg | Reply

    creationism is a joke. you’re basing your entire life’s beliefs off of a book written by human beings. that’s all there is too it. nothing outside of your own emotional feeling of “rightness” indicates that what you read is true. you’ve just been conditioned. sorry. next time you’re in church and you think “there’s just no way this can be wrong!”, you will have proven what i mean.

  125. By Hazz | Reply

    Creationism is bullshit.
    Theres so much evidence pointing to evolution which u just can’t ingnore

  126. By Hazz | Reply

    then you have A LOT to learn about the world. Did you know that OUR DNA shows that we are more closely related to chimpanzees than they are to gorillas? Thats called evolution

  127. By Hazz | Reply

    and btw,they dont teach creation bullshit in schools in australia where i’m from, cos we all know evolution is correct!

  128. By anyoumous | Reply

    in response to:The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing

    Let me just say that there is TONS og evidence that God is real. Just look around. Do you see that tree outside your window? God created it. Look in a mirror. Have you ever sat in awe about how comlex we are? Please, if you don’t listen to anything that i say, just watch this video. the whole thing:

    I can’t express to you how much i want you to understand. What did you think of the video?
    Let me also say this: God is not some big man who sits up in heaven throwing big lighting bolts down on earth and making us suffer. He made us and He loves us, unconditionally. We are sinners but God made a way for us to be forgiven. GRACE. I’m not going to get into the specificities, because you have probably heard what Jesus did for us.

    In short, God loves us, He made us, and He has a plan and a purpose for each and every one of us. He wants you but you have gone astray. He will reach you and He will show up, just listen for Him.

  129. By anyoumous | Reply

    ohhh. the link didn’t work.

    i’ll try again

  130. By anyoumous | Reply

    nevermind. just go to YouTube and type in: louie giglio laminin and click on the first video and watch the WHOLE THING.It’s awsome

  131. By Selena | Reply

    Because Creationism is the only version they want to teach. They want Christian views shown, but no others. That’s where the line is going to be drawn rather than a wide view of several religions.

  132. By Allen Morton | Reply

    The above self-proclaimed Christians who thumb their snooty noses at scientific knowledge are of similar mentality as people like the Nazis who murdered Jews out of fear. Fear is the fuel that drives these puritans. Unfortunately, some of these creeps will have the sights of their guns on Obama if he wins the Presidency. My concerns are supported by the rhetoric that is common on many ultra right wing hate radio talk shows.

  133. By Mike | Reply

    If God is real, then take me to him…

  134. By Mike | Reply

    BTW if Sarah palinwants to push religion on us that badly, then she is in no way better then those terrorists way out back.

  135. By Allen Morton | Reply

    did you notice what we get when we remove the L from Palin? that’s right, PAIN, expect alot of it if the Republican creationists are elected.

  136. By Laura | Reply

    Using genetic mutations to support evolution is not correct; mutations always produce a loss of information, while the theory of evolution needs new information to be added into the genome to change dinosaurs into birds, etc. Creationists do believe that bacteria vary and adapt, but they do not evolve in the molecules-to-man sense. The fossil record is not in a completely straight line; the layers from different locations are often arranged together to give the appearance of evolution. There should also be hundreds of non-disputable ape-man fossils — but there are only a few questionable ones, at best. I believe that neither creation or evolution can be proven as a ‘scientific fact’. They are both models about the origins of life which, in all fairness should fall under history, not science. However, something I would like to bring up is that the very punch-line of evolution – life arising from non-living chemicals and slowly evolving – contradicts the scientific laws of Biogenisis (life can only come from life) and The Second Law of Thermo-dynamics (things will continually run down and deteriorate unless energy is invested from an outer source in a planned and methodical manner). I believe that debating this issue in school-rooms across the nations is a great idea; it would get kids excited about what they are learning. (I can say this, because I’m still a student and absolutely love to debate over issues). Someone said that the Bible is only a book writen by a bunch of men; I would disagree with this but also point out that every evolutionary textbook out there was written by a human! Scientists are NOT infallible! Please go to answersingenesis.org and read a few articles. It is a GREAT website and offers ‘proof’ for creationism.

  137. By starlight | Reply

    The “book” that Stellahark and I both get our beliefs from is inspired by the Holy Spirit. It may be written by human beings, but hello! its not another fiction book that you can get at Borders!!!! Stellahark may have an emotional feeling about this topic, but to my understanding, you are putting a lot of “emotions” into your responses as well. Christians also get their beliefs, not only from the Bible, but also from conversions in our society. There is a lot to learn about Christianity that can’t always be explained through writings, you have to live it. Stellahark and I both may believe that Creationism is true, but you strongly believe that Evolution happened. Let me have my own beliefs, and I will respect yours.

  138. By starlight | Reply

    p.s. my previous response was toward FLAGG on October 8, 2008.

  139. By forEVer | Reply

    First of all, the Bible is not just some book written by human beings. It was written based on Revelation and is extraordinarily complex. Your argument about creationists or Christians being “conditioned” is not valid. Yes there are the people who have been taught about God from birth, but what about the people who have conversions. obviously they have not been taught that for their whole lives. Also the people who are “cradle-Christians” do not immediately accept all the of teachings presented to them. Instead they also question their faith and strive to find answers. Christians are not a gullible and meek group of idiots.

  140. By Priscila | Reply

    Flagg,
    You say creationism is a joke but thats strictly based off your opinion. A Christians “entire life beliefs” are not merely based on a book either. As A Catholic, my beliefs were passed down to me both from tradition and scripture. They stem from Jesus becoming man on Earth. He chose His apostles who are the foundation to where our pope comes from. “Rightness” is not only derived from a book, but from the moral example Jesus Christ gave us. It is not based on strictly emotion but on a higher standard. If we Christians acted on emotion, then fear and sadness would override us and the moral acts we commit would not be quite so possible. We aren’t conditioned. We are presented an opportunity know Christ and we grasp it. Conversians and personal testimonies would not be valid without experience, which condioning us would do.

  141. By Erma | Reply

    Our entire faith is a combination of Scripture AND Traditions, unlike other faiths that DO simply take the Bible at face value as the only way. Also, we do believe that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Even if you do not accept this, accept that we do not take the words of man as the infallible truth simply because it is in the Bible.

    Faith is not based on an emotional feeling of rightness, it is rooted in reason. You must have a basis to compare “rightness” to and there is no man that can judge, for all of us, what that is. Ergo, something outside of and beyond us as humans must have determined this standard. Regardless of the means by which we discover it, it must first exist.
    We know that we are not conditioned because we have free will. We have heard all of our “options” and different view points, and, as adults, it is our prerogative to choose whether or not we will accept the truth that God exists and is present in the ways that we think.

    Lastly, were we conditioned, you must also be. You must have been conditioned to think that God does not exist. That he is not divine. You have preconceived notions of your own, and you are obviously not open-minded to other views. You must, therefore, be both conditioned as well as stubborn.

  142. By Si UK | Reply

    What i find amusing yet a little upsetting is that a lot of the atheist debate on here regards “ignorant” creationists, when i am sure that we creationists can tell you more about evolution than you evolutionists can tell us about creationism or our religion.

    Even you Mike Lang went on to thank Allen Morton who said…

    “The bliss of ignorance weakens America. It is likely that many of those who argue for religious studies in our public schools are lazy and/or afraid to study sciences such as geology, botany, invertebrate zoology, comparative vertebrate anatomy, and genetics.”

    We creationists do learn about evolution in school and are at least familiar with the theory. Then we make our mind up comparatively. What exactly can you tell me about Jesus?

    Now who are the ignorant ones?

  143. By Laura Moreno | Reply

    Gary,

    I see what you are saying. When it comes to creation it boils down to the bottom line of faith, doesn’t it? However, it also is an issue of faith when you speak about evolution. Because we weren’t there were we? If you are open I would love for you to just look at the following link and read some of the articles about all types of fossils and species. If nothing else…. it is interesting.

    Laura

  144. By Laura Moreno | Reply

    http://www.creationmoments.com/resources/

  145. By richard | Reply

    Is the world not held in space by two lobsters named Esmeralda and Keith? ( Sorry, I stole that one) Perhaps these people who want to teach religion in schools ( and I do not discriminate here, I mean any religion) should really examine what these religions actually say. Has anyone read the christian bible? Human sacrifice, providing daughters and wives as unpaid prostitutes to passers by,( while at the esanme time protecting male visitors from sodomy) destroying cities because they did not worship an egotistical mythical, bad tempered sky god? The mind boggles. Good thing it’s all a myth or we should all be worried

  146. By cindy | Reply

    To me I think most ppl that have wrote stuff in here are retarded (look the real meaning up) of the fact that things evolve to the surroundings sure its ok to teach that in sci. but I dont think that its ok to tell the kids that evolotion theroy is how we got here i think that creationism should be offerd as a class that the kids could choose to take and if they dont want it they dont have to take it.

    Hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

  147. By Ikke | Reply

    As a Belgian, it is crazy to see how religious lot’s of americans still are. How can you base your entire life on a book, and say that everybody else should follow this book. Girls have sex with their father, young girls are being raped, people get 969 years old, people move the sun,…
    Why is the bible better than, let’s say the koran? It is the same god you know.
    Why are you right, and not the animalists from Africa, or the Incas, or the thaoists,…? Everybody has the right to choose it’s own religion, but not to impose it on others.
    It can make you feel better (or worse) inside your head, but it does not explain anything in this world.

    Religion belongs in church or at home, not in public or government, that should change in the US.
    In Belgium for example:
    - if you have a public function for the government, you can’t wear religious symbols
    - in government buildings, no religious symbols may be present
    - state and church are separated, no ‘In god we trust’ or ‘I swear to god’ in court
    - atheists are not considered parias
    - 55% of the population is religious
    - 4% goes to church on a weekly bases
    - 50% of the couples gets married in church
    - 40-45% baptises its children
    - 20% of the religious people, believes in creationism, 16% old earth, 4% new earth.
    Religious and non-religious people live together without any problems and without one group thinking it is morally superior to the other.

    Let’s hope things get a little better in the following years…

  148. By Jake | Reply

    @Mia. Just another crazy religious fundamentalist… Saying that sex is garbage. When your father was inseminating your mother, he delivered a load of garbage…
    There is only one holy thing: secularisation

  149. By anyoumous | Reply

    As a Christians, our goal is not to bang a bible over your head and tell you that you’re going to hell. We want to share with you the love of God and how we can go be with Him forever in heaven. Non-Christians get such a distorted view of what we beleive. Yes, ther have been extremeists and Chritians who have put a bad name on us, like the crusades, but we all make mistakes. We are not hipocrates, we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, and we want to you to get the message that God loves you and is reaching out for you, you just have to accept Him.

  150. By John | Reply

    Seeing the belittling comments on here from those that are attacking belief in intelligent design is somewhat disheartening. I see plenty of name calling from those who claim that those that believe in religion are “ignorant”, or need “education”, as if belief in anything further from the realm of “current” scientific understanding somehow indicates an inferior intellect. All the while claiming that it’s those that believe in a higher power that “thumb their snooty noses” at them, even when the comments themselves show that it’s exactly the opposite that is evident.
    I happen to be a strong believer in both scientific evolution as well as intelligent design (Which is not necessarily indicative of literal belief in the Biblical telling, which it appears is getting pretty muddled in these replies). They are not mutually exclusive or contradictory, in my opinion, regardless of what belief system you have (Monotheistic, Buddhist, Agnostic, or otherwise). It is not a matter of one system being right and the other being wrong outright. It is merely the matter of the science that stems from human inquisitiveness is able to give us the “how”, but not being able to provide the “why”. Science and discovery are wonderful products of human inquisitiveness and perseverence, and there is no denying that, but there is also going to be a certain degree of philosophical element that will always be a part of the human conscience that is not going to merely be satisfied of just knowing HOW things came about. Which makes these “non-scientific” beliefs just as valid. Science is science, and it is observable fact, but who or what left these things here for us to discover? As soon as modern science can answer all of life’s questions, including WHY things are the way they are, perhaps then science will reign supreme as the all-encompassing belief system, but that will never happen because scientific research cannot answer those questions. That being said, in a country where our personal freedoms are held in such a high regard, why is it that the choice to believe that science is not the single absolute truth is frowned upon? And this goes for both sides of the argument, are we not being oppressive if we do not provide choices and arguments for ALL options and allowing individuals to decide for themselves (Whether you want to call it science or philosophy)?
    By the way, Palin’s comments do not scream out to me that “we need to teach creationism in schools exclusively”, as I was initially led to believe. It looks more to me like there are people out there that despise ANYTHING having to do with religion, heard the word “creationism”, and started screaming that the sky was falling. Paranoia is a very curious thing.

  151. By Michael Lang | Reply

    Greetings to Readers of TLR,

    I just wanted to interject and say that it is OK “not to know”….”to have doubts.” The important thing, I believe, is to stay open to the possibilities and advancements in science.

    However, not matter how you slice it…it is delusional to “beleive in the easter bunny” ….PERIOD!
    Just because I do not know does not mean I should believe in anything that comes my way or I am introduced to.
    The primal need for certainty does not guarantee that you will embrace “THE ANSWER”.

    Michael Lang
    The Lang Report

  152. By John | Reply

    Michael,
    I agree with your first point, and this is specifically why we should not be too quick pass judgement on those who come to different conclusions than us.
    All of us form the basis for our ideals based on the logic we learn and our personal experiences through life (which are inevitably going to differ from person to person).

    On the other hand though, you are implying that those who choose to believe in something other than science (be it inclusive or exclusive of it), is doing so only because that is what they were told, and that they don’t believe these things based on observations in conjunction with their own life experiences. It’s a consolidation of the individual. Many of these beliefs hold personal validity to those who hold them and to discount them also discounts the existence of the person that believes them. Diversity in critical thinking is what makes humanity great, and we ought not bring down those who think differently, but rather try and understand what makes all of us unique.

    For me, personally, I don’t see belief in intelligent design as being necessarily contradictory to any explanations that science has provided, more as a compliment to science for those who chose to believe it.

  153. By John | Reply

    And I do want to add, regardless of what we believe, it seems we have a fiscal responsibility as human beings (and my Atheist friends also agree with this), to make the most of the fact that we’re here and have the lives and brains to ask the questions, make the points, learn from each other, and disagree with each other in the first place.

  154. By evolution will weed you out | Reply

    If you are not an animal that what are you? I will tell you a pointless waste of carbon, oxygen, and water you narrow minded moron. I think that your gene pool will be wiped out by the end of the next two decades.

  155. By Creationcrap | Reply

    To Si UK – “Jesus was a blackman” – so said Sean Ryder and he’s a prophet too.
    If you really think that God created us, then why the f did he put the fossils out there? Was it a trial run? Was it to give Spielberg inspiration for a film? Was it to keep the kids happy at the museum? No, it was just down to huge dinosaurs dying so fricken long ago that they turned to stone. If God exists then why doesn’t he fricken kill all the paedophile ministers? You bjoody mad blind faith Christians will have an answer for that one too. Anything that’s good is a miracle and anything that’s bad is the devil. Balls. Church is nice though, so keep going if it makes you happy, just keep it out of the schools because it’s just pretend.

  156. By Mr. Briggs | Reply

    As a response to creationists:

    As long as either evolution or algebra is taught in schools, there will be prayer in schools.

    But as long as creation is taught in schools, there will be absence in schools.

  157. By Aaron Schwartzbart | Reply

    If you’re not impressed by the order exhibited in crystal structures of inanimate objects that couldn’t be produced by random mutation and natural selection (obviously due to the fact that rocks don’t reproduce biologically), how about the fact that a single celled animal that objective non-theistic scientists put in the primordial ooze long before much more complex structures such as salimanders (sp) is propelled by a flagellum (sp) attached to a “motor” with ~ 40 parts few if any of which would have survived natural selection even if you have the faith to believe that the parts carefully assembled themselves through random mutation, general entropic tendencies to the contrary notwithstanding.

  158. By Lisa | Reply

    Yes, fine, teach religion if you must. But not n a science class as a scientific theory, it hasn’t enough evience to allow it be a theory. Stick to teaching it in religios education.

  159. By Lisa | Reply

    Cindy – You can’t even spell Theory – so it’s not suprising you don’t know what one is :)

    P.S- Very aware I just miss spelled Religious. Typo!

  160. By Sabastian | Reply

    I haven’t commented on here before, but I just thought that I would share my opinion:
    - I believe that “creationism” does not qualify as a science, and therefore should not be taught as one. I say this from the view of a 2nd year pre-medicine student, so please rest assured that I have taken more science courses than your average American. Also, please understand that I am speaking as a typical American college student (at least one from my university). I do, however, believe that religion should be taught to students, though probably not at the grade school level (families can teach religions in the privacy of thier own homes if they would like). If religion were to be taught in high school it should be as an elective course, not as a requirement. I feel that science (inculding the theory of evolution), however, should remain a requirement.
    -I would call my self a libral. I am most definitely not religious (although I have studied religion), and I often find myself frustrated by today’s christians. However, when reading many of the comments above mine I found myself frustrated by the “librals” on here who were spewing hatred and ignorance along with thier insults. Those of you who have done that (and you know who you are), you need to do some self-evaluation because you are just as closed-minded as the people you are insulting. And, personally, I find that a closed-minded person is often also an uneducated person.

  161. By Evolution is an excuse | Reply

    Evolution is an excuse so people wont have 2 believe in God!

  162. By God Bless America | Reply

    Everybody should listen to Kent Hovind. He gives some serious examples of how evolution is wrong. He has argued about it with a lot of pro-evolutionist professors and won every single debate. He even offered an amount of 250,000 $ to enybody who will prove evolution and be able to win the debate with him. Kent Hovind, Kent Hovind, Kent Hovind

  163. By chemists | Reply

    Hovind’s examples are all false…..and thank god hes in jail. Do u really think the earth is 6k years old? Really? Hovind does… and he has no science to prove it. Ken miller is far more reputable. Michal Shermer is another good witter, who actually debated Hovind. Find the video on google. Dawkins and Hitchens are great to read….. and here’s the best part. They are intelligent. They have REAL degrees. Or better yet, go to any university, UC’s are the best, and enroll in an actual Evolution class. Its an upper division biology course. (assuming you satisfy the pre-req’s, and understand them). Then come back and say Hovind’s claims are true. This goes for any young earth creationist.

  164. By Lucie | Reply

    What is truth? The belief that scientific justification is a prerequisite of rationality is self- defeating.

  165. By Spencer Grau | Reply

    Wrong, the fossil records show no Pre-Cambrian forms of life. Life sprouted out of no where. Also, there is such thing as micro-evolution, say between one type of dog to another with more hair. But there is no evidence that support Macro-evolution, and in fact, DNA protein strands show no common similarities between what scientists think are branching species. (Such as fish – amphibians – reptiles.)Plus there is no common gradual evolution patterns in fossil records throughout time. So in other words, there is not only a missing link between Apes and Humans, but also between any other species of animals that scientists think evolved from each other.

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  51. Sep 23, 2010: Sarah Palin's Sacred Baby Syndrome - Page 41 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

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